We have a saying on the east coast of Canada that more or less goes "Toronto is fun as long as you are continuously spending money". Will take going to Montreal 10 outa 10 times. Better food, better city, better people
Article hits the nail on the head. Need a hard crash in Canada or else there’s no future for most young people in the country, unless they’re smart enough to get out. Kudos to BTFullStack for the accurate write up.
“as we understand it” because we’ve luckily avoided going to Canada for about 8-9 years now. LOL. Love that.
Appreciate calling out the foreign investors and money laundering. Has had a massive impact on Vancouver real estate - "Yet, even pointing this out as a factor risks getting cancelled. Canadian state media has since 2015 reminded citizens that blaming rising prices on foreign investors is racist. (Is it?)"
Comments about rough situation for young ppl not having upward mobility spot on. Govt is a wreck and continues to spiral. Low wages and high taxes make it brutal.
That being said, I think you missed a few points. 1) Toronto is great for wealthy folks with kids bc the city is very safe without the underclass you get in American cities. Sure it’s cold for some months, but huge advantage to not having copious amounts of gun-wielding car jackers like you get any every American city these days. You can walk around and worry way less compared to Chicago, Miami, Dallas, etc. Yes it’s relatively fine in wealthy parts of those American cities but crime and gangs are bleeding in real quick. Nice to not have to do gated community with navy seal guards. Toronto is 10x safer no question. 2) Toronto has a very diverse food scene and tops its peer American cities bc of it he international aspect of the city. Toronto also has tremendous cottage country lakes which top many peer American cities.
This is facts. Toronto and Canada in general has its downsides for sure, but they don’t gotta worry about mass shootings or mobs of criminals looting all the time
Toronto guy here. The real estate analysis and takes on government calling racism rather than admitting they’ve made immense policy blunders across the board hit the nail on the head. On the nightlife side of things though, you have to look a bit harder but venues (soluna, Paris Texas, madamoiselle, rebel, petty cash to name a few) are a great time if you’re willing to front $ for tables and have typically younger crowds. On the dining side Ki sushi, Terroni (any location), stock TC, Yamato and Canoe are all heaters and there are a ton of great places in the luxury area around the four seasons
Great sports city, food best in Canada (excluding coastal seafood), young crowd bars and clubs are actually really good (you learn where to avoid)... just have to pony up but really not that bad. Also laughing at the house “pre” so spot on.
I died at the house "pre" because it's so true lol. The young crowd places are good but of course I'm sure you know that Gracie's and even to an extent the Maddy are places to avoid ;)
There was much effort by the Calgary mayor and city council to advertise in other cities to move to Calgary for the cheaper RE. Still somewhat depressed from the oil business dwindling (still lots of empty CRE downtown) under the new regulatory regime since 2015, RE still gradually picked up in recent years. Despite the cheaper relative prices, lack of jobs and “vibe” are resulting in some moving back from Calgary who fled there from Toronto solely for the cheaper prices without considering other tradeoffs.
Calgary, Banff, Jasper are all still beautiful to visit. To live there year round, you need to be ready for the weather.
Partly that will be a person decision based on your own financial situation, comparable rent/buy for your target neighborhood, and how long you plan to live there.
Bull’s advice in other posts on RE purchase decisions (for now just stick your down payment in t-bills) broadly applies to Canada.
The other macro trends as discussed in the post can have an impact depending how they change in the years to come, up to you to guess which way it will go, no one know for sure.
Currently living in Toronto can confirm this entire city guide is 100% accurate, even down to the four season in Yorkville and older crowd at Lula Lounge
I posted that a little tongue-in-cheek. I know more than most on US Immigration because I had an L1 visa with an employer at one point and have looked at immigrating again, it can be just a huge PITA.
For anyone reading and curious:
Getting a visa is easiest if you are in a TN eligible field and have a job offer.
H1-B is an option if you have a degree, but it's a lottery and a long process so not a lot of US employers will go through the whole thing with you.
L1 Visa if you work for a Canadian subsidiary of a US Company and do an intra company transfer (Eg. Netflix Canada to Netflix USA)
E2 Visa if you own 50% of a company that is starting in the USA and you have capital that you can put at risk (rule of thumb is $50-100K)
Quebec in general, especially the cities of Montreal and Quebec City, is a bit of a different story than the rest of Anglo Canada.
Quebec has had much more European values, governance, and city planning to the extent that their cities are denser and more livable now than the rest of Canadian cities doomed by American style urban sprawl model. Lots of low rise medium density apartments, better public transit, parks, slightly higher income taxes but many more social services than Ontario, especially for families.
The strict language laws and prickly culture in some parts if you don’t speak French well, as well as stronger anti-immigrant sentiment and weaker jobs market than in Anglo Canada, probably also has led to reduced long term demand and thus less of the crazy price swings seen in Toronto and Vancouver. Many immigrants who land in Montreal end up moving as soon as they can to Toronto, and many in Quebec (including their government) rightly or wrongly aren’t sad to see them go.
If you can learn French, it’s probably the most livable part of Canada for singles and families on most dimensions. Otherwise, the language politics and culture can be pretty grating long term. Delightful to visit regardless.
Thank you, very informative. Actually thought about buying in 2025 as a vacation property and defraying the costs by renting to University students September to May. Not sure of the tax implications as an American though. Agreed, delightful to visit with a European feel and able to drive to from the Boston area as opposed to flying to Europe
Location of Toronto's Billy Bishop Airport is so great - flights across Canada or major USA cities. none of the Pearson airport crowds. It is actually better it does not have major international flights in this case.
Located on an island, it used to be a short ferry but there is an underground walkway for a few years now.
We have a saying on the east coast of Canada that more or less goes "Toronto is fun as long as you are continuously spending money". Will take going to Montreal 10 outa 10 times. Better food, better city, better people
Also true.
Article hits the nail on the head. Need a hard crash in Canada or else there’s no future for most young people in the country, unless they’re smart enough to get out. Kudos to BTFullStack for the accurate write up.
“as we understand it” because we’ve luckily avoided going to Canada for about 8-9 years now. LOL. Love that.
Appreciate calling out the foreign investors and money laundering. Has had a massive impact on Vancouver real estate - "Yet, even pointing this out as a factor risks getting cancelled. Canadian state media has since 2015 reminded citizens that blaming rising prices on foreign investors is racist. (Is it?)"
Comments about rough situation for young ppl not having upward mobility spot on. Govt is a wreck and continues to spiral. Low wages and high taxes make it brutal.
That being said, I think you missed a few points. 1) Toronto is great for wealthy folks with kids bc the city is very safe without the underclass you get in American cities. Sure it’s cold for some months, but huge advantage to not having copious amounts of gun-wielding car jackers like you get any every American city these days. You can walk around and worry way less compared to Chicago, Miami, Dallas, etc. Yes it’s relatively fine in wealthy parts of those American cities but crime and gangs are bleeding in real quick. Nice to not have to do gated community with navy seal guards. Toronto is 10x safer no question. 2) Toronto has a very diverse food scene and tops its peer American cities bc of it he international aspect of the city. Toronto also has tremendous cottage country lakes which top many peer American cities.
This is facts. Toronto and Canada in general has its downsides for sure, but they don’t gotta worry about mass shootings or mobs of criminals looting all the time
Great question. If you got money and kids in Canada, only reason you're staying is because of wanting to be close to family, IMO.
Checks out... escaping to the USA is top of mind for aspirational young Canadians
Toronto guy here. The real estate analysis and takes on government calling racism rather than admitting they’ve made immense policy blunders across the board hit the nail on the head. On the nightlife side of things though, you have to look a bit harder but venues (soluna, Paris Texas, madamoiselle, rebel, petty cash to name a few) are a great time if you’re willing to front $ for tables and have typically younger crowds. On the dining side Ki sushi, Terroni (any location), stock TC, Yamato and Canoe are all heaters and there are a ton of great places in the luxury area around the four seasons
Great sports city, food best in Canada (excluding coastal seafood), young crowd bars and clubs are actually really good (you learn where to avoid)... just have to pony up but really not that bad. Also laughing at the house “pre” so spot on.
I died at the house "pre" because it's so true lol. The young crowd places are good but of course I'm sure you know that Gracie's and even to an extent the Maddy are places to avoid ;)
Do you have any insight on the Calgary RE market? It seems like prices here have climbed a lot as a lot of Toronto and Vancouver people have moved.
There was much effort by the Calgary mayor and city council to advertise in other cities to move to Calgary for the cheaper RE. Still somewhat depressed from the oil business dwindling (still lots of empty CRE downtown) under the new regulatory regime since 2015, RE still gradually picked up in recent years. Despite the cheaper relative prices, lack of jobs and “vibe” are resulting in some moving back from Calgary who fled there from Toronto solely for the cheaper prices without considering other tradeoffs.
Calgary, Banff, Jasper are all still beautiful to visit. To live there year round, you need to be ready for the weather.
Spot on! I own two businesses over here and want to buy a home at some point. Do you think that it makes sense to wait until prices correct a bit?
Partly that will be a person decision based on your own financial situation, comparable rent/buy for your target neighborhood, and how long you plan to live there.
Bull’s advice in other posts on RE purchase decisions (for now just stick your down payment in t-bills) broadly applies to Canada.
The other macro trends as discussed in the post can have an impact depending how they change in the years to come, up to you to guess which way it will go, no one know for sure.
City guide and the RE article were spot on
Currently living in Toronto can confirm this entire city guide is 100% accurate, even down to the four season in Yorkville and older crowd at Lula Lounge
Lol Unsurprising.
Anybody here know a great USA immigration lawyer?
Sincerely,
A trapped Canadian entrepreneur
Most US employers will handle immigration docs for you if you get and accept the job offer.
I posted that a little tongue-in-cheek. I know more than most on US Immigration because I had an L1 visa with an employer at one point and have looked at immigrating again, it can be just a huge PITA.
For anyone reading and curious:
Getting a visa is easiest if you are in a TN eligible field and have a job offer.
H1-B is an option if you have a degree, but it's a lottery and a long process so not a lot of US employers will go through the whole thing with you.
L1 Visa if you work for a Canadian subsidiary of a US Company and do an intra company transfer (Eg. Netflix Canada to Netflix USA)
E2 Visa if you own 50% of a company that is starting in the USA and you have capital that you can put at risk (rule of thumb is $50-100K)
great article bowtiedfullstack! you have some skills, i enjoyed the read
Any thoughts on Quebec City?
Seems a lot cheaper and very beautiful.
Quebec in general, especially the cities of Montreal and Quebec City, is a bit of a different story than the rest of Anglo Canada.
Quebec has had much more European values, governance, and city planning to the extent that their cities are denser and more livable now than the rest of Canadian cities doomed by American style urban sprawl model. Lots of low rise medium density apartments, better public transit, parks, slightly higher income taxes but many more social services than Ontario, especially for families.
The strict language laws and prickly culture in some parts if you don’t speak French well, as well as stronger anti-immigrant sentiment and weaker jobs market than in Anglo Canada, probably also has led to reduced long term demand and thus less of the crazy price swings seen in Toronto and Vancouver. Many immigrants who land in Montreal end up moving as soon as they can to Toronto, and many in Quebec (including their government) rightly or wrongly aren’t sad to see them go.
If you can learn French, it’s probably the most livable part of Canada for singles and families on most dimensions. Otherwise, the language politics and culture can be pretty grating long term. Delightful to visit regardless.
Thank you, very informative. Actually thought about buying in 2025 as a vacation property and defraying the costs by renting to University students September to May. Not sure of the tax implications as an American though. Agreed, delightful to visit with a European feel and able to drive to from the Boston area as opposed to flying to Europe
no comments... just this video you have to watch, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj8ffwUfqm8
JT at his best.
Any chance of a Chicago City guide soon?
Location of Toronto's Billy Bishop Airport is so great - flights across Canada or major USA cities. none of the Pearson airport crowds. It is actually better it does not have major international flights in this case.
Located on an island, it used to be a short ferry but there is an underground walkway for a few years now.