Hard work is pointless in the face of real talent. I know from experience.
Worked like a madman for 4 years in Sales, read every book, did seminars, speech training, grinding 50+ hours every week. Got to FAANG lvl company in Dublin. Just to get crushed in sales by a drunk high roided out of his mind Irishman. Who wasn't even trying...
Turned to tech. 9-month bootcamp in 3 months. 2 years in a Faang company getting promoted every 6 months due to whining about how bored I was. Now I've got my own consulting cloud company making 15k/m for 10h/w.
1/4 of the effort, 20x the results. I found my talent lol.
the most fascinating aspect to starting a second income stream is (a phenomenon bull talked about long ago in the WSP days) where your performance *materially improves* in your day job after you start your side business. a combination of adding skills to make you more well rounded in the business world and a newfound confidence since you're digging your tunnel out of Shawshank... a rare golden ticket to navigate the simulation of life.
Bull and team - want to get your advice since this is a concept I’ve struggled with. I came out of college doing M&A IB making $200k, now 1st year PE associate making ~$400k. The point you made about side income psychologically feeling pointless has applied to me since I started working.
I understand the rationale of being able to exit a side biz via sale whereas you can’t do the same with career. It’s difficult for me to imagine being able to build a side biz where the time allocation is worth it. In order for it to make sense I’d have to be able to exit for 8-figures by my early 30s, otherwise why not stay in PE/hedge fund and just make 7-figures starting in late 20s/early 30s? Putting aside things like mobility, freedom of schedule etc and looking at this purely from a cash flow maximizing perspective.
IMO there’s a small chance any ecomm biz I make gets to big enough scale where it makes more sense to focus time on that vs career. In other words, I have no competitive advantage in ecomm especially vs people doing this full time or who only work 9-5, and my career compensation scales a lot faster and is much higher probability than an ecomm biz.
What am I missing here in my logic? I can completely understand a side income of $50k moving the needle for someone else but for me, the effort it would take to learn/build the biz seems low ROI.
You are making two big assumptions: 1) that you will still be employed and actually move up that quickly and 2) that you believe you can't scale to a meaningful number
You work in finance you already know you get a multiple on earnings so if you get to say $200K earnings you will be making WAYYYYYYY more there versus your job/career.
You also ignore the risk of being fired.
We started on Wall Street and can tell you leaving and scaling was the most profitable decision by a factor of 1,000
I used to think this way too. But you're always beholden to someone else's schedule. You become financially wealthy but time poor. And you have to then choose between giving up the golden handcuffs or leaving to start at 0 business late in life.
Some PE colleagues acquired own businesses, launched own funds, started own business or just stopped. Depends on what you want, but if you ever want to have control of your time and money, plan for an exit.
The problem becomes, then what? At a certain point you hate that despite having money you have no control over your time.
Do you leave for a lower stress job, just not work, or only start a business then but haven't learnt the basics? None of those 3 are ideal, speaking as someone that saved all his PE earnings and in same boat now..
19 yrs old in college (Sophomore). Saved up my internship money- $20k. Should I pay off my loans from first year of college or start wifi biz? loans are 3.75% interest and about $20k.
Can someone explain the strategy behind larger down payment in high interest environment with a quick example with figures? I think I'm missing something
"starting there when you are in peak earning years just looks like a “waste of time”."
Add in the additional growth of those savings. $6k invested at 20 vs $6k invested at 40 ends up being a huge $$ difference after you invest it and let it grow.
Bull nails it.
$6k to a young person is magnitudes more impactful. Start Young
Its been hard to figure out where my autist brain could go for a wifi business. Currently trying Ecommerce but not getting an edge out of it. Im a recruiter who is very successful in his 9-5. I've been trying to find a wifi business that overlaps a bit with what I'm good at. Offer Negotiations, tactics of getting a job. Etc..is this the type of ability you refer to in the article? Thanks
This has always been a struggle. My true talent is in coding and tech, made decent income, but top coders in my country didn't earn rockstar pay. Switched to private equity, am mediocre, earn 10x my software engineer salary/pay.
Global/online is changing this dynamic thankfully, so am going back to my actual talent of dev work, as a start to exit PE. Don't want to get stuck in a place with less prospects, beholden to a boss' whims.
thank you so much for all your great content and support that you put out there - have been a reader since the early days!
I have a question around determining the right living location and choosing between two specific options - fine to post here or better in the Q&A? if so, when will the next Q&A be? Thanks!
Timely post and can't believe it's free. I struggle with the same "high earner, late starter" issues unfortunately. But can't change that. WiFi $ is underway. Bull nails it when you compare the initial WiFi $ to your income it's laughable. So relying on the compounding of revenue impact...
All advice should be put into context of your goal. If you enjoy your profession and see yourself working at 70, very different than someone trying to bank all they can and fake retire at 40
Hard work is pointless in the face of real talent. I know from experience.
Worked like a madman for 4 years in Sales, read every book, did seminars, speech training, grinding 50+ hours every week. Got to FAANG lvl company in Dublin. Just to get crushed in sales by a drunk high roided out of his mind Irishman. Who wasn't even trying...
Turned to tech. 9-month bootcamp in 3 months. 2 years in a Faang company getting promoted every 6 months due to whining about how bored I was. Now I've got my own consulting cloud company making 15k/m for 10h/w.
1/4 of the effort, 20x the results. I found my talent lol.
This is how it is done
Eh, maybe the drunk man had a better territory? Sales is about timing, territory, and then talent at a distant third.
the most fascinating aspect to starting a second income stream is (a phenomenon bull talked about long ago in the WSP days) where your performance *materially improves* in your day job after you start your side business. a combination of adding skills to make you more well rounded in the business world and a newfound confidence since you're digging your tunnel out of Shawshank... a rare golden ticket to navigate the simulation of life.
This is true.
So so good. They need to make this mandatory in high schools. I’m going to send this to my 13 year old daughter.
Bull and team - want to get your advice since this is a concept I’ve struggled with. I came out of college doing M&A IB making $200k, now 1st year PE associate making ~$400k. The point you made about side income psychologically feeling pointless has applied to me since I started working.
I understand the rationale of being able to exit a side biz via sale whereas you can’t do the same with career. It’s difficult for me to imagine being able to build a side biz where the time allocation is worth it. In order for it to make sense I’d have to be able to exit for 8-figures by my early 30s, otherwise why not stay in PE/hedge fund and just make 7-figures starting in late 20s/early 30s? Putting aside things like mobility, freedom of schedule etc and looking at this purely from a cash flow maximizing perspective.
IMO there’s a small chance any ecomm biz I make gets to big enough scale where it makes more sense to focus time on that vs career. In other words, I have no competitive advantage in ecomm especially vs people doing this full time or who only work 9-5, and my career compensation scales a lot faster and is much higher probability than an ecomm biz.
What am I missing here in my logic? I can completely understand a side income of $50k moving the needle for someone else but for me, the effort it would take to learn/build the biz seems low ROI.
You are making two big assumptions: 1) that you will still be employed and actually move up that quickly and 2) that you believe you can't scale to a meaningful number
You work in finance you already know you get a multiple on earnings so if you get to say $200K earnings you will be making WAYYYYYYY more there versus your job/career.
You also ignore the risk of being fired.
We started on Wall Street and can tell you leaving and scaling was the most profitable decision by a factor of 1,000
I used to think this way too. But you're always beholden to someone else's schedule. You become financially wealthy but time poor. And you have to then choose between giving up the golden handcuffs or leaving to start at 0 business late in life.
Some PE colleagues acquired own businesses, launched own funds, started own business or just stopped. Depends on what you want, but if you ever want to have control of your time and money, plan for an exit.
“It’s difficult for me to imagine being able to build a side biz where the time allocation is worth it.“
Take a look at financial samurai. Believe similar industry and website now makes as much as previous career.
But yes, if you want to bank 50% of income for a decade, you’ll be financially free.
The problem becomes, then what? At a certain point you hate that despite having money you have no control over your time.
Do you leave for a lower stress job, just not work, or only start a business then but haven't learnt the basics? None of those 3 are ideal, speaking as someone that saved all his PE earnings and in same boat now..
19 yrs old in college (Sophomore). Saved up my internship money- $20k. Should I pay off my loans from first year of college or start wifi biz? loans are 3.75% interest and about $20k.
WiFi, if you have extra money then you can slowly pay it off. Collect that free $10K as well so you're cut in half already
BTB absolutely spitting in this one. Should be mandatory reading for all young people.
Can someone explain the strategy behind larger down payment in high interest environment with a quick example with figures? I think I'm missing something
Already in the paid content
Thanks I found it. Here it is for anyone else looking for it in Part 2 with the 4 enumerated bullet points: https://bowtiedbull.substack.com/p/do-s-and-p-500-estimates-make-sense
"starting there when you are in peak earning years just looks like a “waste of time”."
Add in the additional growth of those savings. $6k invested at 20 vs $6k invested at 40 ends up being a huge $$ difference after you invest it and let it grow.
Bull nails it.
$6k to a young person is magnitudes more impactful. Start Young
Or just remain Poor. Also works for motivator.
BTB- Hoping to get a reply here.
Its been hard to figure out where my autist brain could go for a wifi business. Currently trying Ecommerce but not getting an edge out of it. Im a recruiter who is very successful in his 9-5. I've been trying to find a wifi business that overlaps a bit with what I'm good at. Offer Negotiations, tactics of getting a job. Etc..is this the type of ability you refer to in the article? Thanks
This has always been a struggle. My true talent is in coding and tech, made decent income, but top coders in my country didn't earn rockstar pay. Switched to private equity, am mediocre, earn 10x my software engineer salary/pay.
Global/online is changing this dynamic thankfully, so am going back to my actual talent of dev work, as a start to exit PE. Don't want to get stuck in a place with less prospects, beholden to a boss' whims.
thank you so much for all your great content and support that you put out there - have been a reader since the early days!
I have a question around determining the right living location and choosing between two specific options - fine to post here or better in the Q&A? if so, when will the next Q&A be? Thanks!
Open Q&A is end of every month when you can ask whatever you like.
Timely post and can't believe it's free. I struggle with the same "high earner, late starter" issues unfortunately. But can't change that. WiFi $ is underway. Bull nails it when you compare the initial WiFi $ to your income it's laughable. So relying on the compounding of revenue impact...
You should start wifi as fast as possible. As the post states it will only get worse your paragraph proves it
"five (six?)". This means you know in 5 years it will be 6 figures which means even harder to ever get started.
All advice should be put into context of your goal. If you enjoy your profession and see yourself working at 70, very different than someone trying to bank all they can and fake retire at 40