I consider the idea of “done by 40” as more of a “the snowball should be well on its way, giving you flexibility” not “must hit number by then, never going to make another dime after that point.” In fact, seems like if you’re doing things right, the likelihood of real hockey stick moments occurring after 40 are high.
But all of that is predicated on 1) having built the foundation, skills, networks up to that point and 2) the fact that you won’t be serving gelato in a beach town somewhere
Thank you Bull, its nice to hear that the best is still to come. Been stressting over scaling my wifi biz and getting frustrated but its nice to know that good times are *likely* ahead
Ha. Agreed re hedonism stage being mandatory. The first time my income jumped 2X, I spent 5K on stupid assorted consumerist garbage. Then I realized I was burning freedom. Lucky it was only 5K and learned lesson early.
I need to start a Wi-Fi business,I’m behind the curve. What post would you recommend for how to determine your niche and guidelines on execution from there? Post made me realize I’m probably NGMI on my current projection.
Pro tip: if you’re exiting and you’re gonna do the hedonism thing full degen, lock up a bunch of that money into something illiquid that you won’t be able to liquidate until you’re sober or ready to move onto the next leg of the game.
Lifestyle inflation *is* a killer. Same for taxes. I find it helps to set a reasonable budget for living and fun and stay under it. Then I don’t feel guilty when I splurge on something.
Gotta find a good accountant for tax and estate planning. BTB, you mentioned hiring a CPA who worked in the IRS. Any other tips? Lots of CPA scrubs out there.
Bull, longtime reader on WSP and BTB and always appreciate your wisdom. I studied maths in college and earned a trading seat on Wall St. Am ~25 now, 200k nw (liquid) and on track to increase YoY comp again under decent conditions (assuming I am not axed; I am a top performer but macro has me concerned). My focus out of school was to establish myself as a top performer on the desk because I wanted the right tail of comp (it is fairly meritocratic) and I have done so. I now want to begin focusing on the WiFi monies but lack the imagination to determine what I should create. I have thought of (serious) courses on pricing, building trading infra (python), and the like. I recognize I've probably put too much into the corp grind upfront, but I'm looking to rectify that and humbly ask for your advice or any insight on my situation if you or others on the forum have the time. Thanks Jungle.
How does this change if you are in a career that isnt going away? Maybe your upward promotions stop at 45, but you can plug away with 2% raises for 20 years (ie-already have the long tail)?
Obviously everything about getting a big payout cutting your time to 'financial freedom' holds true, but does it change the calculus since you don't need to worry about making it to the end table?
This is 100% true. I'm 38. Avg income is $200k. Had some banner covid years and it jumped up to $500k+. I did a decent job saving during those years (about 50%), but could of done better, lots of mindless spending. Now income is back to $200k and I learned a hard lesson that I could of been way ahead of the game if I was smarter during boom years. DO NOT OVER-INDULGE DURING BOOM YEARS! I was under contract for a couple of $1MM+ houses but we backed out. Grateful that we did. Some I know did not and now are running up HELOCs to make ends meet in hopes that we hit another boom.
Yep, you will probably have another good run between now and 48 statistically speaking. That said it't not smart to assume that it'll continue for more than a couple years
Man, those savings rates charts are straight outta the FIRE world. What’s going on here?! jk
Appreciate the post. Although no longer a FIRE type, I still stick to the 50% rule. No matter how much I make, half must go to savings/investments. Keeps me humble
love the poker analogy. fits my niche so maybe i need to write up my thoughts on that in a post. unfortunately us degen gamblers are probably most subject to that hedonism stage. 🤦🏾♂️ sometimes takes a while to learn good lessons lol
This is the key point IMO. 22.5k isn’t changing the world when building wealth but the tax benefits at the higher earning levels are worth it IMO.
The common advice is max these out first…I disagree with that. Take the match at a minimum, you’ll know if you should max it out or not based on how much you’re making….trust me.
Fair enough. I appreciate there are different camps on this topic as I had a professor (10 years ago) encourage everyone to max out their annual 401(k) contributions. Though that seems like a steep opportunity cost for that capital, the minimum of contributing for the match makes sense.
We've said the same thing for 10 years. Just get the match
if its 6% matched you put in 6% since that is a guaranteed 100% return. Even if you pull it out after taxes and penalties it is still a 50% guaranteed return
For a 0 match would you still take advantage of the tax break? Gives me a 45% tax break but no matching, can do up to 25% of income, but cant touch till 60...
The truth (which naturally hurts) at that level of income you should be focusing way more on your side income. So you should be spending all your money on ads, inventory etc.
Currently 24y/o, 40k/year at job in medical field, wouldnt consider it a "career". Believe im a natural introvert. So of the three recommended options, assume going tech is my supposed best career route.
Do you recommend to stick to the "job" and start the second income now?
Quit it, begin to work several remote "jobs" then start the secondary income?
Or Secure a "career" in tech, then start on the secondary income?
I consider the idea of “done by 40” as more of a “the snowball should be well on its way, giving you flexibility” not “must hit number by then, never going to make another dime after that point.” In fact, seems like if you’re doing things right, the likelihood of real hockey stick moments occurring after 40 are high.
But all of that is predicated on 1) having built the foundation, skills, networks up to that point and 2) the fact that you won’t be serving gelato in a beach town somewhere
Yeah the compounding is the key which is why that hedonism year when you're printing can really cost you a decade
Thank you Bull, its nice to hear that the best is still to come. Been stressting over scaling my wifi biz and getting frustrated but its nice to know that good times are *likely* ahead
Ha. Agreed re hedonism stage being mandatory. The first time my income jumped 2X, I spent 5K on stupid assorted consumerist garbage. Then I realized I was burning freedom. Lucky it was only 5K and learned lesson early.
As long as you don’t buy a boat, form a coke habit or get someone with a butterfly tattoo pregnant it’s all good
I need to start a Wi-Fi business,I’m behind the curve. What post would you recommend for how to determine your niche and guidelines on execution from there? Post made me realize I’m probably NGMI on my current projection.
Go to the monthly post end of march all the ecom stuff is organized there in the end
Hahaha this is all spot on.
Pro tip: if you’re exiting and you’re gonna do the hedonism thing full degen, lock up a bunch of that money into something illiquid that you won’t be able to liquidate until you’re sober or ready to move onto the next leg of the game.
Yeah always happens takes a lot of guys out for good as well
Lifestyle inflation *is* a killer. Same for taxes. I find it helps to set a reasonable budget for living and fun and stay under it. Then I don’t feel guilty when I splurge on something.
Gotta find a good accountant for tax and estate planning. BTB, you mentioned hiring a CPA who worked in the IRS. Any other tips? Lots of CPA scrubs out there.
Way too complex without knowing how you earn, personal life style, future planning and a 100 other bells and whistles.
If really rich you go to tax havens.
If you go work for the IRS you're a scrub, I wouldn't use that as your qualifier.
Bull, longtime reader on WSP and BTB and always appreciate your wisdom. I studied maths in college and earned a trading seat on Wall St. Am ~25 now, 200k nw (liquid) and on track to increase YoY comp again under decent conditions (assuming I am not axed; I am a top performer but macro has me concerned). My focus out of school was to establish myself as a top performer on the desk because I wanted the right tail of comp (it is fairly meritocratic) and I have done so. I now want to begin focusing on the WiFi monies but lack the imagination to determine what I should create. I have thought of (serious) courses on pricing, building trading infra (python), and the like. I recognize I've probably put too much into the corp grind upfront, but I'm looking to rectify that and humbly ask for your advice or any insight on my situation if you or others on the forum have the time. Thanks Jungle.
Just go to the sunday post at the bottom in all the ecom stuff. That's all you need
If you want to do something SaaS/Software then probably reach out to pickle/devil who are more tech oriented (we have never scaled a SaaS)
Appreciate the advice, will give pickle's and devil's work a read and try to touch base. Many thanks
OK im fucked lol
How does this change if you are in a career that isnt going away? Maybe your upward promotions stop at 45, but you can plug away with 2% raises for 20 years (ie-already have the long tail)?
Obviously everything about getting a big payout cutting your time to 'financial freedom' holds true, but does it change the calculus since you don't need to worry about making it to the end table?
This is 100% true. I'm 38. Avg income is $200k. Had some banner covid years and it jumped up to $500k+. I did a decent job saving during those years (about 50%), but could of done better, lots of mindless spending. Now income is back to $200k and I learned a hard lesson that I could of been way ahead of the game if I was smarter during boom years. DO NOT OVER-INDULGE DURING BOOM YEARS! I was under contract for a couple of $1MM+ houses but we backed out. Grateful that we did. Some I know did not and now are running up HELOCs to make ends meet in hopes that we hit another boom.
Yep, you will probably have another good run between now and 48 statistically speaking. That said it't not smart to assume that it'll continue for more than a couple years
Man, those savings rates charts are straight outta the FIRE world. What’s going on here?! jk
Appreciate the post. Although no longer a FIRE type, I still stick to the 50% rule. No matter how much I make, half must go to savings/investments. Keeps me humble
The FIRE stuff is definitely a scam, since they try to live on $20K
That said the math is the math though. Doesn't make sense to spend your entire salary raise or income raise since that sets you back years
Def agree. The math is the math.
love the poker analogy. fits my niche so maybe i need to write up my thoughts on that in a post. unfortunately us degen gamblers are probably most subject to that hedonism stage. 🤦🏾♂️ sometimes takes a while to learn good lessons lol
good luck and good skill out there, anons.
Your stance on 401(k) is a little foggy after reading this. Sounds like you are discouraging it but not fully ruling it out as a useful tool?
This is the key point IMO. 22.5k isn’t changing the world when building wealth but the tax benefits at the higher earning levels are worth it IMO.
The common advice is max these out first…I disagree with that. Take the match at a minimum, you’ll know if you should max it out or not based on how much you’re making….trust me.
Fair enough. I appreciate there are different camps on this topic as I had a professor (10 years ago) encourage everyone to max out their annual 401(k) contributions. Though that seems like a steep opportunity cost for that capital, the minimum of contributing for the match makes sense.
We've said the same thing for 10 years. Just get the match
if its 6% matched you put in 6% since that is a guaranteed 100% return. Even if you pull it out after taxes and penalties it is still a 50% guaranteed return
For a 0 match would you still take advantage of the tax break? Gives me a 45% tax break but no matching, can do up to 25% of income, but cant touch till 60...
Sure at the high tax bracket it can make sense.
The truth (which naturally hurts) at that level of income you should be focusing way more on your side income. So you should be spending all your money on ads, inventory etc.
What website did you use for the calculator showed in this post?
Love it. Brutal.
Currently 24y/o, 40k/year at job in medical field, wouldnt consider it a "career". Believe im a natural introvert. So of the three recommended options, assume going tech is my supposed best career route.
Do you recommend to stick to the "job" and start the second income now?
Quit it, begin to work several remote "jobs" then start the secondary income?
Or Secure a "career" in tech, then start on the secondary income?
Thanks!