Started reading your substack 18 months ago. I was in real estate for 8 years, made above average money for my age (20's) but considering the weeks were 60+ hours and I missed most weekends the extra dollars never made up for the lost time.
Last August I started a nicotine pouch wholesale business in Australia. By January this year I was supplying over 100 tobacco shops across the country and the brand was a well known name in the industry. I did $550k in sales for Q1 this year and would've increased those figures substantially if the Australian government didn't come in and ban nicotine pouches from sale/import here.
I've finished up that chapter and am now working on my next project which will launch in about 1 month. I will never work a 9-5 ever again knowing what I now know. Most will consider dumping tens of thousands of dollars into a venture with no guaranteed return extremely risky, but the real risk is working your whole life for someone else who would advertise a vacant position in their company a week after your funeral.
Your work is greatly appreciated and I will be a reader for life.
Yep spot on. Went to as many tobacco shops and convenience stores as I could find and got people to commit to pre orders. Once I got enough commitments to cover the cost of inventory I ordered a pallet and went from there.
Went down the "perfect wall street career" route. Even ending up moving to Asia to minimize taxes - ended up doing better than most. Ended up in a very senior role, and can admit - company (and industry) is a joke. Hiring practices are redacted. The best of the best are no longer going into finance - just a lot of sheep that can't think for themselves.
Sitting in the management seat:
"Yes, I know people are overworked and people are leaving/dying, but we can't lower the bar, so just tell everyone to work harder. Everyone wants to work for us because of our reputation and it'll launch your career. It's a great place to work and you'll have tons of opportunities to grow your career and take more responsibility and be rewarded for it"
Also me:
"Fuck this place and everyone in it. The second I hit my number, I'm GTFOing"
Spent college making fun of those "tech dreamers" and their failing startups. They tried, tried again.
13 years later, I'm doing fine. They're going public.
Thank you, Bull, for all the posts. The BowTied community has been really helpful. I have two options right now and would love the community's thoughts. Option 1: Move to PE to secure higher compensation for aggressive near-term investments (e.g., in crypto); Option 2: Take on strategy/operations roles at a tech company and use the free time to build an online business. Thank you in advance.
Assuming you are young (around 25), PE I think is a good way to spend the "associate" years. I think in PE you learn a bit more about modeling businesses, running them operationally, and generally seeing the investment process play out. Even as a junior, in a tighter knit PE company, you're more in the know than just typing and powerpointing in IB.
BTB probably says 2nd choice, for the online biz, but you probably can't go wrong with either.
To highlight a point since many people may not be super familiar with finance industry.
At VP+ level, deferred comp makes up a huge amount of your earnings. 25%, 50%, 100%+. So in your $850k example, something like $200k-$400k is in long-term incentive. You have 2-4 years of salary sitting out there that you lose if you leave.
My work-friend works many extra hours to “move up” and has PLENTY of work to show for it … but he is NOT the “smile nod agree” type person. When something hurts his feelings, he lets management know - and even escalates things.
He ended up being one of the few who did NOT get a bonus… regardless of deliverables
Your comp numbers look great for non-US folks due to all the USD strength. Still think a geo-arb option is good for those that want to go back home after a work-stint in the US. Insane to think a decent house is $2m-$4m in the US.
Yeah, my IB and PE experience haven't been useful for running a business. They just pay the most where I'm from, (4x more than tech since there isn't a decent tech sector here). But I've reached that grind point where more hours/more income don't move the needle anymore.
PE at least gives you equity, but it's too fund driven, so am looking for a jump into one of the portfolio companies in an MBO, rather than just being the funder.
I realized I was a number on a spreadsheet when I saw the spreadsheet. Fear is a terrible reason to not change. I learned late that talking about my fears always brings them down to size no matter what they are - once they get down to size, and I can take a step, progress can happen rapidly.
This is really great advice for young people and the advice I give my 16 yr/son who also reads your bits. I got burnt in my 20's doing a software startup in Palo Alto when we were acquired by a household brand name. Shame on me but should have jumped right back in and risked more for my vision of the biz, instead I fled to FANG for comfort and the remote work (no office for 15 years). By applying the "being likable for 5-10 hours a week" I was promoted and compensated yet heads down in crypto, real estate, and paying off our primary mortgage in Pebble Beach ASAP then our rental in Palm Springs. I suppose the priority for me was being able to help raise my son and having the luxury to take him to school, drs apt, football, surf, friends, ect..... without living under my desk like my Father did as an executive.
The golden handcuffs are real but only if you need it. If you have assets and own no one anything and FANG is no longer impressed with your "5-10 hours a week" you can leave the room with your middle fingers in the air and be fine to focus on other things.
I am 43 now and have hit many of my goals in life but I am really starting to take those long-planned wifi ideas from ideas to reality with that spare time you mentioned above, in addition to the lack of having to stress over maintaining a high-paying software job to pay debt and life style creep.
5-8 yrs from now things are going to be extremely different and disruptive and "will print many millionaires in the coming years".
all agreed. one point - the career numbers you posted might even be on high side. ive seen 4y deferred kick in at lower levels, associate and VP levels. meaning not getting that cash able to reinvest where you want and instead at the mercy of the banks stock price (who knows what it does relative to S&P). so the whole compounding effect starts later even.
I've been following your advice for seven years since WSP, crucial in transitioning from my home country, thanks for everything !
I'm at a European fund with no deal flow due to fundraising issues and high rates, doing mostly unsatisfying portfolio work with a $50bn+ portfolio, which stunts my learning and promo prospects. The firm, backed by a pension fund, has a no-fire policy unless misconduct occurs, contributing to a stable but depressing/toxic environment. My seniors dont like me much and being an outsider/migrant, I often receive low-priority assignments, yet the hours are great (20-60/week), and the pay and bonuses are BB IB level base and 70-90% bonus.
I have an offer to join another fund where the team head is my long term mentor and knows me personally, promising better political rapport but this is at the cost of more aggressive culture, better deal flow, less job security, and longer hours of course.
I can't start a side business for another year until I get permanent residency. I'm concerned about losing personal time if I move and not being able to pursue side biz if I switch. Should I move for potentially better career growth or stay and be patient for a year? What's your take?
This is just another long test where the answer is the same. if your plan is to get rich you need to start a biz/get equity if you don't you'll be copper handcuffed at early 30s
If you're fine with being safe but no upside, then stick with careerist path
Our money says its not worth it anymore but you can deicde yourself
Off topic but for those that are on Blast and farming who have the criteria in this tweet, youre able to mint a Free NFT with high distribution (possible jackpot winner)
Started reading your substack 18 months ago. I was in real estate for 8 years, made above average money for my age (20's) but considering the weeks were 60+ hours and I missed most weekends the extra dollars never made up for the lost time.
Last August I started a nicotine pouch wholesale business in Australia. By January this year I was supplying over 100 tobacco shops across the country and the brand was a well known name in the industry. I did $550k in sales for Q1 this year and would've increased those figures substantially if the Australian government didn't come in and ban nicotine pouches from sale/import here.
I've finished up that chapter and am now working on my next project which will launch in about 1 month. I will never work a 9-5 ever again knowing what I now know. Most will consider dumping tens of thousands of dollars into a venture with no guaranteed return extremely risky, but the real risk is working your whole life for someone else who would advertise a vacant position in their company a week after your funeral.
Your work is greatly appreciated and I will be a reader for life.
Amazing and congrats!
You on Twitter?
bean_mcflurry - Don’t post much though
Congrats! May I ask how you got the first sales going in a wholesaler business? Just hit the pavement asking around?
Yep spot on. Went to as many tobacco shops and convenience stores as I could find and got people to commit to pre orders. Once I got enough commitments to cover the cost of inventory I ordered a pallet and went from there.
Mind sharing what the business was called now it's banned? Would be interesting to take a look
https://www.pouchcity.com
Passcode is 2369
Very true.
Went down the "perfect wall street career" route. Even ending up moving to Asia to minimize taxes - ended up doing better than most. Ended up in a very senior role, and can admit - company (and industry) is a joke. Hiring practices are redacted. The best of the best are no longer going into finance - just a lot of sheep that can't think for themselves.
Sitting in the management seat:
"Yes, I know people are overworked and people are leaving/dying, but we can't lower the bar, so just tell everyone to work harder. Everyone wants to work for us because of our reputation and it'll launch your career. It's a great place to work and you'll have tons of opportunities to grow your career and take more responsibility and be rewarded for it"
Also me:
"Fuck this place and everyone in it. The second I hit my number, I'm GTFOing"
Spent college making fun of those "tech dreamers" and their failing startups. They tried, tried again.
13 years later, I'm doing fine. They're going public.
Yeah its brutal now numbers wise
Thank you, Bull, for all the posts. The BowTied community has been really helpful. I have two options right now and would love the community's thoughts. Option 1: Move to PE to secure higher compensation for aggressive near-term investments (e.g., in crypto); Option 2: Take on strategy/operations roles at a tech company and use the free time to build an online business. Thank you in advance.
Option 2 obviously... Assuming you're serious about making it
Assuming you are young (around 25), PE I think is a good way to spend the "associate" years. I think in PE you learn a bit more about modeling businesses, running them operationally, and generally seeing the investment process play out. Even as a junior, in a tighter knit PE company, you're more in the know than just typing and powerpointing in IB.
BTB probably says 2nd choice, for the online biz, but you probably can't go wrong with either.
To highlight a point since many people may not be super familiar with finance industry.
At VP+ level, deferred comp makes up a huge amount of your earnings. 25%, 50%, 100%+. So in your $850k example, something like $200k-$400k is in long-term incentive. You have 2-4 years of salary sitting out there that you lose if you leave.
Golden handcuffs are fr
Brutal
What is your screen time to physical realm ratio at this point?
Way more screen time right now esp in a high farm market
haha!!
Worst Case Scenario:
My work-friend works many extra hours to “move up” and has PLENTY of work to show for it … but he is NOT the “smile nod agree” type person. When something hurts his feelings, he lets management know - and even escalates things.
He ended up being one of the few who did NOT get a bonus… regardless of deliverables
Great article on dead careers.
Your comp numbers look great for non-US folks due to all the USD strength. Still think a geo-arb option is good for those that want to go back home after a work-stint in the US. Insane to think a decent house is $2m-$4m in the US.
Yeah, my IB and PE experience haven't been useful for running a business. They just pay the most where I'm from, (4x more than tech since there isn't a decent tech sector here). But I've reached that grind point where more hours/more income don't move the needle anymore.
PE at least gives you equity, but it's too fund driven, so am looking for a jump into one of the portfolio companies in an MBO, rather than just being the funder.
Yeah by the time you realize you need to do something you're usually nearing 30 and hard to give up the money
Brutal!
I realized I was a number on a spreadsheet when I saw the spreadsheet. Fear is a terrible reason to not change. I learned late that talking about my fears always brings them down to size no matter what they are - once they get down to size, and I can take a step, progress can happen rapidly.
""People Lack Priorities, Not Time"" -- true
This is really great advice for young people and the advice I give my 16 yr/son who also reads your bits. I got burnt in my 20's doing a software startup in Palo Alto when we were acquired by a household brand name. Shame on me but should have jumped right back in and risked more for my vision of the biz, instead I fled to FANG for comfort and the remote work (no office for 15 years). By applying the "being likable for 5-10 hours a week" I was promoted and compensated yet heads down in crypto, real estate, and paying off our primary mortgage in Pebble Beach ASAP then our rental in Palm Springs. I suppose the priority for me was being able to help raise my son and having the luxury to take him to school, drs apt, football, surf, friends, ect..... without living under my desk like my Father did as an executive.
The golden handcuffs are real but only if you need it. If you have assets and own no one anything and FANG is no longer impressed with your "5-10 hours a week" you can leave the room with your middle fingers in the air and be fine to focus on other things.
I am 43 now and have hit many of my goals in life but I am really starting to take those long-planned wifi ideas from ideas to reality with that spare time you mentioned above, in addition to the lack of having to stress over maintaining a high-paying software job to pay debt and life style creep.
5-8 yrs from now things are going to be extremely different and disruptive and "will print many millionaires in the coming years".
all agreed. one point - the career numbers you posted might even be on high side. ive seen 4y deferred kick in at lower levels, associate and VP levels. meaning not getting that cash able to reinvest where you want and instead at the mercy of the banks stock price (who knows what it does relative to S&P). so the whole compounding effect starts later even.
That's hilarious if true
I've been following your advice for seven years since WSP, crucial in transitioning from my home country, thanks for everything !
I'm at a European fund with no deal flow due to fundraising issues and high rates, doing mostly unsatisfying portfolio work with a $50bn+ portfolio, which stunts my learning and promo prospects. The firm, backed by a pension fund, has a no-fire policy unless misconduct occurs, contributing to a stable but depressing/toxic environment. My seniors dont like me much and being an outsider/migrant, I often receive low-priority assignments, yet the hours are great (20-60/week), and the pay and bonuses are BB IB level base and 70-90% bonus.
I have an offer to join another fund where the team head is my long term mentor and knows me personally, promising better political rapport but this is at the cost of more aggressive culture, better deal flow, less job security, and longer hours of course.
I can't start a side business for another year until I get permanent residency. I'm concerned about losing personal time if I move and not being able to pursue side biz if I switch. Should I move for potentially better career growth or stay and be patient for a year? What's your take?
This is just another long test where the answer is the same. if your plan is to get rich you need to start a biz/get equity if you don't you'll be copper handcuffed at early 30s
If you're fine with being safe but no upside, then stick with careerist path
Our money says its not worth it anymore but you can deicde yourself
Is early 30s too late? Still possible to do it then if no family/settling down planned any time soon (I appreciate my freedom too much)
Off topic but for those that are on Blast and farming who have the criteria in this tweet, youre able to mint a Free NFT with high distribution (possible jackpot winner)
https://x.com/bowtiedgrappler/status/1787899938640453858?s=46&t=_w_GBdyqCNI8kK750zyVsw
Is it worth the privacy risk to turn college into youtube content?
I told my sister to build an anon brand instead, but she says it’s harder to stand out because of the spam
As usual depends on how talented you are
Nothing we could help you decide via text comments
talented in explaining college concepts or standing out without credentials?
Fantastic reminder. Continue to grind. Smile nod and agree
Money as always